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	<title>Comments on: Sun Fire &#8216;CoolThreads&#8217; T1000 review</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/</link>
	<description>Thought stream from SmugMug's CEO &#38; Chief Geek</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Don MacAskill</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-100075</link>
		<dc:creator>Don MacAskill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 04:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-100075</guid>
		<description>@paul:

Clearly, you haven't read through the thread or the follow-up posts.  Here's a brief summary:

I set up a 2nd T1000 in our datacenter with Solaris on it, so we had one with Solaris and one with Linux.  Then I went over to Sun and sat in a room for an entire day with the high-performance computing team and we fiddled with both servers. 

The Linux one outperformed the Solaris one even after all the Sun guys had worked on it.  Further, our AMD boxes outperformed both.

I believe we ran into limitations on network interrupts, rather than anything CPU related, but regardless - this fairly common workload fell down on T1000.

I believe Niagara2 would perform much better since it has on-board 10GigE NICs, but we haven't done any testing yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@paul:</p>
<p>Clearly, you haven&#8217;t read through the thread or the follow-up posts.  Here&#8217;s a brief summary:</p>
<p>I set up a 2nd T1000 in our datacenter with Solaris on it, so we had one with Solaris and one with Linux.  Then I went over to Sun and sat in a room for an entire day with the high-performance computing team and we fiddled with both servers. </p>
<p>The Linux one outperformed the Solaris one even after all the Sun guys had worked on it.  Further, our AMD boxes outperformed both.</p>
<p>I believe we ran into limitations on network interrupts, rather than anything CPU related, but regardless - this fairly common workload fell down on T1000.</p>
<p>I believe Niagara2 would perform much better since it has on-board 10GigE NICs, but we haven&#8217;t done any testing yet.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-100044</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-100044</guid>
		<description>Rough power consumtion:
HDD: 10W idle, 20-25W when transfering data
RAM: 10W _each_ DIMM, no matter what size; i.e. 40 W one bank of four.

On the one hand, your comparison is more than a joke. How can you be so ignorant and don't even invest an evening to get the basics of Solaris?
I'm pretty sure that Solaris on that machine would be _much_ faster at your sweet spot, because the IP stack was lifted up.  Plus you get administrative and debugging tools (e.g. DTrace) that you can't have with Linux.
On the other hand, you're right in that "your app is your benchmark".
At least you should be aware that you benchmarked the L2 cache throughput.  Is this workload really your daily business?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rough power consumtion:<br />
HDD: 10W idle, 20-25W when transfering data<br />
RAM: 10W _each_ DIMM, no matter what size; i.e. 40 W one bank of four.</p>
<p>On the one hand, your comparison is more than a joke. How can you be so ignorant and don&#8217;t even invest an evening to get the basics of Solaris?<br />
I&#8217;m pretty sure that Solaris on that machine would be _much_ faster at your sweet spot, because the IP stack was lifted up.  Plus you get administrative and debugging tools (e.g. DTrace) that you can&#8217;t have with Linux.<br />
On the other hand, you&#8217;re right in that &#8220;your app is your benchmark&#8221;.<br />
At least you should be aware that you benchmarked the L2 cache throughput.  Is this workload really your daily business?</p>
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		<title>By: SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Companies That Listen: Sun</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-92757</link>
		<dc:creator>SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Companies That Listen: Sun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-92757</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;m happy to report that Sun listens to their customers. Really, truly, listens. Even to small ones like me. Even to small ones like me who complain loudly when a product isn&#8217;t right (but who cheer equally loudly when it is). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;m happy to report that Sun listens to their customers. Really, truly, listens. Even to small ones like me. Even to small ones like me who complain loudly when a product isn&#8217;t right (but who cheer equally loudly when it is). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan G</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-70760</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 22:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-70760</guid>
		<description>Your ignorance is stunning. Or is it just typical Linux-ites' 'linux is the best thing since sliced bread' prejudice against real unices? All that gnu/freeware stuff you were looking for is in /opt/sfw/bin or /usr/sfw/bin, and the equivalent to 'top' is 'prstat'. (you really should keep up with the real unix scene). Now I have a question for you: If linux is so superior to solaris, where is its equivalents to the (absolutely essential) pstack, ptree, psig, pcred, pflags, pldd commands in solaris? :)  Awaiting your response. JG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your ignorance is stunning. Or is it just typical Linux-ites&#8217; &#8216;linux is the best thing since sliced bread&#8217; prejudice against real unices? All that gnu/freeware stuff you were looking for is in /opt/sfw/bin or /usr/sfw/bin, and the equivalent to &#8216;top&#8217; is &#8216;prstat&#8217;. (you really should keep up with the real unix scene). Now I have a question for you: If linux is so superior to solaris, where is its equivalents to the (absolutely essential) pstack, ptree, psig, pcred, pflags, pldd commands in solaris? <img src='http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Awaiting your response. JG</p>
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		<title>By: SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sun Honeymoon Update: Servers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-46928</link>
		<dc:creator>SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sun Honeymoon Update: Servers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-46928</guid>
		<description>[...] Their lights-out management (LOM) is a dream. I dinged the Sun T1000 last year because it&#8217;s LOM is pretty terrible, but the X2200&#8217;s LOM is freaking fantastic. How fantastic? Let me count the ways: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Their lights-out management (LOM) is a dream. I dinged the Sun T1000 last year because it&#8217;s LOM is pretty terrible, but the X2200&#8217;s LOM is freaking fantastic. How fantastic? Let me count the ways: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelDZH</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-44536</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelDZH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-44536</guid>
		<description>Hi. I find forum about work and travel. Where can I to see it? 
Best Regards, Michael.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. I find forum about work and travel. Where can I to see it?<br />
Best Regards, Michael.</p>
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		<title>By: SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Enterprise Linux problem</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-43163</link>
		<dc:creator>SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Enterprise Linux problem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-43163</guid>
		<description>[...] Which brings us to Solaris. Solaris is now open-source, so it&#8217;s on my radar again. I love ZFS, I love the fault-tolerant stuff it has for when memory or CPUs go bad, etc. Sure sounds great. It&#8217;s a commercial OS, with free updates, and (I assume) good support options. But the last time I gave it a shot (last year), I was lost in userland. Solaris userland and Linux userland differ so greatly, there&#8217;s a steep learning curve for someone like me with 14 years of Linux under my belt. But I&#8217;m considering taking a closer look. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Which brings us to Solaris. Solaris is now open-source, so it&#8217;s on my radar again. I love ZFS, I love the fault-tolerant stuff it has for when memory or CPUs go bad, etc. Sure sounds great. It&#8217;s a commercial OS, with free updates, and (I assume) good support options. But the last time I gave it a shot (last year), I was lost in userland. Solaris userland and Linux userland differ so greatly, there&#8217;s a steep learning curve for someone like me with 14 years of Linux under my belt. But I&#8217;m considering taking a closer look. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: photobug</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-35298</link>
		<dc:creator>photobug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-35298</guid>
		<description>Hi Don, 

I'm long-time DGrin'ner (referred by Fish, early on) and SmugMug subscriber, who raves about SmugMug's incredible responsiveness and customer service to anyone who will listen ;-).    I also happen to receive paychecks from Sun. 

The results you saw on the T1000 were not at all what I would have expected.  The T1000/T2000 servers are the first systems Sun has shipped with *highly*-threaded (32-way) CPUs.  I understand that one of the key issues with them is that customers don't tend to see right out-of-the-box what those servers are capable of because the OS (Solaris, and possibly the Linux distros) don't yet come pre-configured to take advantage of what the Niagara processor can do.  The initial Solaris configuration settings are more appropriate to, say, a dual-threaded (dual-core, single-thread) UltraSPARC IV processor than the 32-thread (8-core, 4-thread) Niagara processor.

Sun is defintely working to remedy the out-of-the-box OS configuration issue. In the meantime, Sun provides software called "CoolTune" as part of the Cool Tools package that will ask you a few questions and set up all the *right* Solaris configuration parameters for you, for much better performance after that.

I agree, many of the tools (esp Linux ones) aren't immediately available on the command line when you see that first Shell prompt.   It's not that they are missing; their directory just isn't on the default $PATH.  Arguably, they should be ... but that aside, I think someone else already told you that many of them can be found in /usr/sfw/bin.  

Secondly, did you get any help from Sun's PAE group to uncover what the issues were?   You might have found a significant improvement if they were involved.   (I've heard that you did have some contact with that group re some other Sun gear you were evaluating)

I was so jazzed when I heard that SmugMug was considering (and as you announced in another blog, actually chose) Sun gear.   Way cool.   I suspect you'll find some other Sun solutions that will be great fits at SmugMug, as time goes on ;-).   I'm sure I'm not the first to offer, but if you're not getting what you need, drop me a line and I'd be happy to help connect you up with the right folks at Sun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Don, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m long-time DGrin&#8217;ner (referred by Fish, early on) and SmugMug subscriber, who raves about SmugMug&#8217;s incredible responsiveness and customer service to anyone who will listen ;-).    I also happen to receive paychecks from Sun. </p>
<p>The results you saw on the T1000 were not at all what I would have expected.  The T1000/T2000 servers are the first systems Sun has shipped with *highly*-threaded (32-way) CPUs.  I understand that one of the key issues with them is that customers don&#8217;t tend to see right out-of-the-box what those servers are capable of because the OS (Solaris, and possibly the Linux distros) don&#8217;t yet come pre-configured to take advantage of what the Niagara processor can do.  The initial Solaris configuration settings are more appropriate to, say, a dual-threaded (dual-core, single-thread) UltraSPARC IV processor than the 32-thread (8-core, 4-thread) Niagara processor.</p>
<p>Sun is defintely working to remedy the out-of-the-box OS configuration issue. In the meantime, Sun provides software called &#8220;CoolTune&#8221; as part of the Cool Tools package that will ask you a few questions and set up all the *right* Solaris configuration parameters for you, for much better performance after that.</p>
<p>I agree, many of the tools (esp Linux ones) aren&#8217;t immediately available on the command line when you see that first Shell prompt.   It&#8217;s not that they are missing; their directory just isn&#8217;t on the default $PATH.  Arguably, they should be &#8230; but that aside, I think someone else already told you that many of them can be found in /usr/sfw/bin.  </p>
<p>Secondly, did you get any help from Sun&#8217;s PAE group to uncover what the issues were?   You might have found a significant improvement if they were involved.   (I&#8217;ve heard that you did have some contact with that group re some other Sun gear you were evaluating)</p>
<p>I was so jazzed when I heard that SmugMug was considering (and as you announced in another blog, actually chose) Sun gear.   Way cool.   I suspect you&#8217;ll find some other Sun solutions that will be great fits at SmugMug, as time goes on ;-).   I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m not the first to offer, but if you&#8217;re not getting what you need, drop me a line and I&#8217;d be happy to help connect you up with the right folks at Sun.</p>
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		<title>By: SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Server Analysis - Sun victory!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-35209</link>
		<dc:creator>SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Server Analysis - Sun victory!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 01:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-35209</guid>
		<description>[...] Their lights-out management sounds awesome on paper. (For the x64 gear. The T1000 didn&#8217;t have great LOM, I&#8217;m afraid). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Their lights-out management sounds awesome on paper. (For the x64 gear. The T1000 didn&#8217;t have great LOM, I&#8217;m afraid). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Kudos to Jonathan Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.smugmug.com/don/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-33326</link>
		<dc:creator>SmugBlog: Don MacAskill &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Kudos to Jonathan Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.smugmug.com/onethumb/2006/08/15/sun-fire-coolthreads-t1000-review/#comment-33326</guid>
		<description>[...] I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised by Sun&#8217;s response to my detailed review of the Sun Fire CoolThreads T1000 server and our interest in buying them. Sun assembled a great team of engineers and spent some time with us trying to figure out why our application wasn&#8217;t performing up to snuff on their hardware. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised by Sun&#8217;s response to my detailed review of the Sun Fire CoolThreads T1000 server and our interest in buying them. Sun assembled a great team of engineers and spent some time with us trying to figure out why our application wasn&#8217;t performing up to snuff on their hardware. [...]</p>
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